At a Deerhunter concert at the Orange Peel in early December, lead singer/guitarist Bradford Cox told a long rambling story about the first time Deerhunter appeared at the Peel in 2007. Smashing Pumpkins had a week-long run there, and then-obscure Deerhunter opened for them one night.

Cox spent a quarter of an hour reminiscing about an encounter he had with Smashing Pumpkins frontman Billy Corgan, whose personality is notorious. His story was recorded by a fan, put on YouTube, called slander and greeted with a threat of legal action from Smashing Pumpkins’ manager, and taken down again.

Allegedly, it was over a bottle of water.

According to Cox, the story has two chilling episodes. At the time, Deerhunter hadn’t put out an album. They borrowed a van to get to Asheville. Episode one: After the show Cox, clad in a dress, “as was the fashion of the time,” spotted a “fucking pyramid” of brand-name bottled water, and took one. A “bodyguard guy” (height and ethnicity estimated) said ‘The fuck are you doing? That’s Mr. Corgan’s water.’ Cox says he said “Oh, I’m sorry.” The bodyguard indicated surprise that the be-frocked Cox was male and said “something real fucked up.”

Then, allegedly, there was turning away, and ‘Look at me when I’m talking to you, punk,’ and grabbing, and pushing against a wall, and lunging to defense by the bass player, and finally a retreat to a “broom closet” in the basement, where Deerhunter was plied with food by apologetic Orange Peel staff.

Episode two: The next day, they returned to the Peel. “There was this sort of vibe.” “Tense.” A huddle of Smashing Pumpkins people. Cameras everywhere. “Mr. Corgan will see you now.” “Whatever.” Videotaping going on.

Then (still allegedly): “I hear you’ve been causing a lot of trouble. Do you know who you are? You’re shit. You’re a shitty little insignificant fucking indie rock band, and you are invited – not by me, who knows what fucking idiot in my management did this – but you are invited to open for the Smashing Pumpkins…”

Cox said he was snarky about the water display, peeled the sticker off his backstage pass, said “Fuck… you,” reached across some sort of barrier, and slapped the sticker on Corgan’s leg. Corgan shouted “Assault! Assault!”

Cox recounted that “the Smashing Pumpkins people” said they’d sue Deerhunter, and that he replied “Oh, what do you think we’ve got?” Whereupon the Pumpkinfolk ejected Deerhunter, throwing their equipment – including drum kit – down steps, repeating the accusation of assault. The drum kit had to be replaced. “Every time I come back to play this venue, I’m going to tell this story again,” said Cox.

Naturally, video was posted on Youtube. You can also see it in the Stereogum link.

Naturally, the Pumpkinfolk threatened to sue. Their manager released this statement:

“Several eyewitnesses can attest that Cox’s account is a complete fabrication, probably to get some much needed attention. He is correct about one thing, that the whole thing is on tape, and that we have a video of the encounter. Since this is intentionally slanderous, I will likely suggest we pursue charges unless a retraction is forthcoming.”

Unclear what could be on tape, if it’s a complete fabrication.

A retraction/apology did come forth from Cox:

Firstly, I would like to say that my intention was not to defame Billy Corgan. What I did was open my big fucking mouth and go off on one of my usual tangents. Some people call this “stage banter.” I do not need, or seek any attention, and in fact was embarrassed that this ended up [on]… Youtube… The story I told was just a contextual rap about something that happened at the venue we were playing – 8 years ago. I will be the first to admit that there are two sides to every story and it is unfair that I gave mine without the other party being there to counter.

The thing that bothered me most about this incident was that after I got off stage I went to the bus and was reading about Scott Weiland’s death (which I find very tragic) and happened upon Corgan’s very moving and heartfelt tribute to his deceased friend. I do not find any humor in kicking someone while they are down. Bringing up a half-remembered interaction from so many years ago was not beneficial to anyone, especially If it causes someone who is already going through a dark moment to feel slandered or attacked. I feel very insensitive and stupid in that regard.

As far as what was said at the show, I prefaced it all by saying it was my recollection of the events. As Corgan’s management has confirmed, it is all on video. I would like to avoid any further drama by just categorically retracting my statements out of respect. I respect anyone who has worked hard playing music for decades, seen their band fall apart because of things out of their control, continued to try to pursue artistic interests and had ups and downs. Perhaps I met Corgan and his crew at an especially difficult time for him. It would be completely hypocritical for me to imply that I have never been just as much of an asshole to people around me than I accused Corgan of being. Who am I to cast stones in a glass house?

I don’t know Billy Corgan other than a 5 minute interaction that left a definite impression on me. I have no doubt there are many sides to his character. My statement was my recollection of the events mixed with some humor. It was meant to be taken as casual stage banter. Not defamation or slander. The easiest thing for me to do to kill this story and hopefully avoid anymore drama is to admit it now. I was tacky and I retract my statements. If the video from 2007 ever does surface I will be very interested to see how my memory matches or contradicts reality.

In all earnestness I offer Corgan my apologies and my empathy during what I imagine is a difficult time with the loss of his friend.

Not a good apology. It sounds like Cox still thinks his account was correct, and would love to be video vindicated. It’s unclear what “retracting” his statements means. He doesn’t say he slandered Corgan, but that he made Corgan “feel slandered.” Saying you’re apologizing because you don’t want to kick someone when he’s down is condescending.

A person who knows more about music than me thinks Cox was displaying genuine empathy about the death of Corgan’s friend. (Eulogic post, which contains a half apology, at December 4 on the Pumpkinsite.)

Saying you’re doing it to avoid the drama is also maddening. “Fine, fine, have it your way! Let’s just drop it!”

There’s a certain element of ‘You stink!’ ‘Take that back!’ ‘Okay, I take it back. Stinker.’ Perhaps the ritual words “I retract my statements” is enough for the Pumpkinfolk. Bradford Cox backed down! Corgan for the win!

Should Cox be apologizing at all? That partly hinges on what happened, and it was 8 years ago. Corgan’s behavior as described was despicable. Did things happen as described? Because if it was a “complete fabrication,” that would be despicable. SHOW US THE VIDEO, PUMPKINFOLK!

Nor does it seem that Deerhunter has entirely dropped the matter. At a Philadelphia concert, they covered the Pumpkintune “Today” with new lyrics.

According to a YouTube post by boz888, Cox sang (in part) “Dear Billy Corgan/I’m very sorry/I respect you/put the phone down/this is a moment we share together/it doesn’t need to be uploaded to youtube… Dear Billy Corgan/I don’t even know you man/please don’t sue me/I love my dog/and I don’t have that much money/and I don’t think you’re the kind of person/who’d starve somebody’s dog/just to prove a point…

Of course, how Billy Corgan could hear the song if no one records it is, again, unclear.

Let’s have some clarity! Let’s see the video! Let’s hear from the dog!